From STADIGAD@us.oracle.com Mon Apr 28 17:18:16 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA04708 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:18:11 -0500 Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [192.86.155.100]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA16260 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:18:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mailsun2.us.oracle.com (mailsun2.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.74]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA04407 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailsun2.us.oracle.com (SMI-8.6/37.8) id PAA11359; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:23:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199704282223.PAA11359@mailsun2.us.oracle.com> Date: 28 Apr 97 15:10:35 -0700 From: "STADIGAD.US.ORACLE.COM" To: telusa@cs.wisc.edu Subject: Re. On chali & vEsavi. Cc: STADIGAD@us.oracle.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.0.2.1.40) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In the kanda padyam ahamulu sannamu lAyenu dahanuDu hitavayye dIrghataralayye niSal bahu SitOpEtambai yuhuhU yana vaNake jagamu lurvInAthA! We have few small problems. Is it dIrghataralu or dIrghatarAlu? The former may not be proper usage. But if you correct it as dIrghatarAlu then Line 2 does not follow rules. It flows correctly upto dahanuDu hitavayye dIrgha as per rules and then breaks them. Probably the line should be read as dahanuDu hitavayye dIrghataramayye niSal. Also, in the last line I believe the correct version should be yuhuhU yani and not yuhuhU yana. As per the 'dhOraNi' of the poem, it lacks consistancy. Having said sannamu lAyenu, hitavayye and dIrghatarAlayye do not fit the style. To justify the line 2 style the line 1 should read as ahamulu sannamu layyenu. Well the first two lines then do not match the kind of language and flow of the last two. Firts part of poem entirely bent on 'telugu' side and second dosed with strong sanskrit samAsas. This is like the famous slOkam bhOjanam dEhi rAjEndra, ghRuta sUpa samanvitam | mAhishamcha Sarshcandra chandrikA dhavaLam dadhi || [ The second line was by kALidAsu; first line was by three students who were trying hard to compose one slOkam. So the story says. One can easily spot more than one author for the tiny slOkam! ] To evenize the flow and language, may be, the poem reads as: ahamulu sannamu lAyenu dhanuDu hitavAye dIrghataralAye niSal bahu SitOpEtambai yuhuhU yani vaNake jagamu lurvInAthA! Now dIrghataralAye or dIrghataramAye? I prefer the former because of the follower word niSal. Now we see the second line changed at two places and the rest of the poem almost as per the original post. In toto. there were three minor changes. Still I am not comfortable with the third line. Though every thing is in order, the word 'SitOpEtambai' does not fit the 'pace' of the poem. - Tadigadapa Syamala Rao. ------------------------ From pkrishna@ARL.MIL Mon Apr 28 22:40:47 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA05936 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:40:43 -0500 Received: from hel4.arl.mil (hel4.arl.mil [128.63.37.4]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA20556 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:40:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 23:30:49 EDT From: "Ramakrishna S. Pillalamarri" To: Telugu Literary Discussion Group Subject: on "seasonal" poems Organization: Message-ID: <9704282330.aa11629@HEL4.ARL.MIL> As long as we are splitting hairs, and determining how many variations could this tiny kanda panda padyam can accommodate, my speculations: the difference between "ayyenu" in first line and and "ayye" in the second line, for metrical considerations are IMO, very minute. That kind of latitude is seen many times. (Having said that, it would be nice if I do back it up with another well-known poem, or a poem by a well-known poet.) about the phrase "deergha-tara-layye niSal". I am afraid I am not finding a problem here that TSR does. "deergha-tara-maina-niSa"-ku "deergha-tara" anna "noun"-nu vADitE, aa taravAta "aa niSalu deergha taralu ayyAyi", ani anakUDadA! "deergha-tarAlu" ani anaTam "vyAvahArika" usage lAgA anipincadU! The comment about the third line departing from the flow of the first two lines is well-taken, but is that such an unusual occurrence? The last line probably should be "yani vaNake" instead of "yana vaNake". So it seems. But is "yana vaNake" grammatically incorrect? jagamulu "yuhuhU" ani annaTTugA vaNakutunnAyi, ani ardham rAdA! Everything above is "loud thinking" not backed up by any examples. I wish I could cite some. If I come across any, I will. While I remember this poem, I did not know it was by aDidam sUrana. (at press time, adiyan is not able to refer to the first two posts in this thread). What work is this poem from? We find poems of this kind, those that describe the seasons, in most of our "kAvyamulu". Because of the many ingredients that go into the definition of a kAvyam, Rtu-varNana is one. I am looking at Andhra bhAgavatam. While it doesn't fit the mold of a prabandha-kAvyam, it has some amount of Rtu-varNana. But only four of the six Rtuvus! It skips vasanta (of all!) and SiSira Rtuvus. But perhaps to make it up for it (or perhaps it also is prescribed) it has descriptions of sunset/moonrise/and sunrise. (All of these occur in the pUrva-bhAgam of daSama skandham) I will cite a few of the poems here. varsha Rtuvu: pUrva-vAyuvulu prabhUtambulai veece, paDamaTa nindra cApambu tOce parivEsha-yuktamai bhAnu-manDala-moppe, merapu luttara diSa merava doDage dakshiNa gAmulai tanare mEghambulu, jala-carAneekambu santasince jAtakambula pipAsalu kaDapala jEre, kAntAra-vahnula garwa maDage nija karALi valana neeraja bandhunDu tolli puccu-konna tOya mella marala niccu-cunDe mahi karsha-kAnanda kandamaina vAna kanduva nogi parivEshamu: sUrya candrula cuTTU ErpaDE guDi; prabHutamu: adhikamu jala-carAneekambu: life in the waters; jAtakamu (cAtakamu): vAna kOsam eduru cUsE oka pakshi! pipAsa: thirst kAntAra-vahni: forest fire; nija-karALi-valana: by his rays karsha-kAnandakamu: that which pleases the farmers; vAna-kanduva: rainy season celuvuDu(1) prAvRTkAluDu(2) polasina pulakincu bhUmi pulakamu lanagA molaci tala letti nikkucu salalita gati jAluvAre sasyamu(3) ladhipA! (1)-friend, (2)-(personified) rainy season, (3)-plants At the risk offending the cognoscenti, and making a faux pas or two in the process, let me elaborate. The poet is comparing the new shoots of the (rice) plants, to "goose-bumps' on Earth, seeing her friend, varshaRtuvu. (I think I should shut up) SaradRtuvu: jompamulu(1) goniye vanamulu, rompu(2) ligire; nemali gamula roda luDige; nadul pempulaku bAse; nurumula Sampala sampadalu mAne SArada vELan (1)-Akula guburulu, (2)-buradalu cEga gala ceraku vinTanu bAguga neelOtpalambu bANambuga sam- yOgambu sEsi madanuDu vEgambuna virahi janula vETADe nogin The meaning is obvious even to me. One point. Newly weds, or for that matter even those of older persuasion often found theselves separated during the rainy season, as many modes of travel became impossible. So the beginning of the Sarad-Rtuvu is welcomed by such folk. hEmanta Rtuvu: uttarapu gAli visare; vi- yattalamuna tuhina kiraNu DahitunDayyen pottu jarige mithunamulaku; nettammulu tarige; himamu nelakoniye nRpA! Now you HAVE to believe me. Suddenly I find this poem here! In this version that I have (1962, Ravindra Publishing House), THE poem is listed as: ahamulu sannamu layyenu; dahanamu hita mayye; deergha daSalayye niSal; bahu-SeetO-pEtambayi yuhuhU yani vaDake lOka murvee-nAthA! (X-pUrva, #800) sUryAstamaya-candrOdaya varNana: taruNuDagu Seeta karunin maragi viyallakshmi dannu mAni mudukaDUn khara-karuDu nanucu drobbina karaNin ravi paScimAdri kaDa grunke nRpA! The sky-maiden, looking at the young (at the onset) moon, considered the Sun as old, and sharp-rayed. Feeling that, the Sun "set" himself by the westward mountain. kaLalu galugu gAka! kamala tODagu gAka! Sivuni mouLi meeda cEru gAka! nanyu nolla, tapanu Daina matpati yani sAdhwi bhangi kamala jAti mogiDe What if he has several kaLas (phases)! What if he is the brother of (by both having been born out of the ksheera sAgara mathanamu) Lakshmi! What if he adorns Siva's hair! With my friend/husband Sun setting, I can't bear to see this moon. Thus the Lotuses withdrew unto themselves. prAcee diSAnganA phAla talambuna deepincu sindoora tilaka managa darpinci virahula dhairya vallulu drempa darpakun Dettina dAtra managa naligi kAla-kirAtu DandhakAra mRgambu khanDimpa merayincu khaDga managa gagana tamAla vRkshnamu toorpu kommanu lalitamai merayu pallava mananga togalu santasilla, dongalu bheetilla kaDali minnu muTTi kaDalu konaga poDice SeetakaruDu bhUri cakOraka preeti-karuDu, jAra-bheeta-karuDu darpakuDu-manmathuDu, dAtramu-koDavali (villu?), togalu-kaluvalu sUryOdayamu: aruNa-hari-nakhara-vidaLita guru-timir-EbhEndra-kumbha-kUTa-vinirmuk- ta-rudhira-mouktikamula-kriya surapati-diSa kempu tODa cukkalu merasen vaccen callani gADpulu; viccen kamalamulu; tamamu virisi bilambul coccen; padma-marandamu meccen, tummedalu grOli! mihiruDu voDaman Well, more to follow. Is that a promise or a threat! Depends on your POV. Ramakrishna From pkrishna@ARL.MIL Tue Apr 29 10:55:49 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA08870 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:55:44 -0500 Received: from hel4.arl.mil (hel4.arl.mil [128.63.37.4]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28335 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:55:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.63.37.38] by HEL4.ARL.MIL id aa11470; 29 Apr 97 11:49 EDT X-Sender: pkrishna@128.63.37.4 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:50:11 -0600 To: Telugu Literary Discussion Group From: "Ramakrishna S. Pillalamrri" Subject: Re: on "seasonal" poems (fwd) In response to the post on "seasonal poems", Paruchuri Sreenivas reminded me that he posted a few poems on "SeetAkAlamu" on SCIT/TELUSA sometime ago, including "ahamulu sannamu layyenu", and aa: Sambhu kanTa nokaTi, jala-raaSi nokkaTi mar''iyu-nokaTi manuja-mandiramula nodige-gaaka; mer''si-yunna mooDagnulu caliki nuliki bhakti salupa-kunne Before I say anything, let me give, for the benefit of the average T-G/G: ahamulu=3Ddays ("day"-part of the days), dahanamu=3Dfire, uliki=3Dbhaya paDi= (?) Note: This post started as a personal response to PS, but later turned into a general one. I am going to try to recast it as such, but if I fail to do that completely, and some references remain, you know .... I didn't remember that PS posted the "Sambhu kanTa nokaTi ..." poem, but yesterday while I was going through the "seasonal" poems, I skipped it. There were more that I could have included (especially a seesa padyam), but didn't want the post to look like a long list of poems from bhAgavatam. And I skipped some because of uncomfortable (to me) references. The edition I have gives meanings to some difficult words in foot notes. Overall, the meanings are helpful, but sometimes I don't understand why they should give "kaDali=3Dsamudramu" etc... =46or the "Sambhu kanTa nokaTi" poem, they gave the meaning of "mUDagnulu" in the foot note. Just as Eskimos are supposed to have several words for various kinds of snow, there are "scientific" terms for different kinds of "agni". We normally here the reference to "jaTharAgni". Here in this poem, the reference to the "mUDagnulu" are to the three specific types: Ahavaneeyamu, gArhapatyamu, dakshiNamu In his commentary on Veda, (vEdAravindamu-2, in press) the eminent Vedic researcher Sri Viswanadha Achyuta Deva Rayalu says: (here I wish I can leave the text in its native telugu script; but not for some time) (Let me try an experiment here. Those of you who are reading this on a Macintosh system, AND have the standard Berkely Telugu fonts installed, should see the above, [I will check this, when I receive this e-mail myself] approximately transcribed. Approximate because it includes many extended ASCII-set characters which don't squeeze well through the narrow e-mail [at press time] tunnel.) =C5=E0rpRivuunMdu jNiMcunu. jr4rvuMdun=F1 =E5G= i=F1Ki Gar=99pt=A5vuNi P#ru. h&dyu=CDa=9FGi=F1 dXi vuM=3DlvuMdli = =E5Gi=F1 =C5hvNIyuvuu. But for the rest of them (possibly including adiyan), I will wRITe it. AhAra pariNAmamu mUDu tAvula yandu jarugunu. jaTharamunandu sthUla- Sareera-avasaramula koraku. hRdayamunandu sUkshma Sareeramunaku valasina tushTi udbhavincunu. j~nAna-dEhAbhi-vRddhi-karamaina mati mukhamunandu janincunu. jaTharamandunna agniki gArhapatyamani pEru. hRdayastha-agni dakshiNAgni. mukha manDalamandali agni Ahavaneeyamu. Ramakrishna aside to PS: the reference to PMM is only for the "inside" folks. I thought he may have returned. It's been long, isn't it? Ramakrishna S. Pillalamarri US Army Research Laboratory Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD 21005-5425 Phone: 410-278-5842/ FAX: -5500 From panini@sprynet.com Tue Apr 29 19:48:22 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA12533 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:48:17 -0500 Received: from m1.sprynet.com (m1.sprynet.com [165.121.2.97]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA08586 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:48:16 -0500 (CDT) From: panini@sprynet.com Received: from [206.175.105.181] (hdn104-181.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.105.181]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA23989 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:48:13 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:48:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199704300048.RAA23989@m1.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Meanings/Etymology To: telusa@cs.wisc.edu In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.10.06.22 namastE! Sree raamakRshNa gaari post on seasonal poems translated the word "kanduva" in one of the poems as "season." That got me thinking as I have come across this word, especially in annamaachaarya keertanalu, several times and its meaning seems to change with context. For example, in "alarulu kuriyaga naaDenadE .. " one charaNam goes: chindula paaTala siri(Siri?) polayaaTala andela mrOtala naaDe nadE kanduva tiruvenkaTapati mechchaga andapu tirupula nalamEl(u) manga In another keertana, "tandanaanaa aahi .." one charaNam goes: kanduvagu heenaadhikamu lindu lEvu andariki SreeharE antaraatma indulO jantukula mintaa nokaTE andariki SreeharE antaraatma Obviously the meaning of of "kanduva" is not intutively obvious! Similarly, I wonder about the meaning/origin of the words: musaLLa panDaga terachi raaju muttaiduva/aidava tanam (I have some understanding of this term from an exchange with Sreenivaas paruchoori but I would like to know what the rest of you think) Regards, paaNini From brao@la.tis.com Tue Apr 29 20:09:10 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA12641 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:09:06 -0500 Received: from relay.la.tis.com (firewall-user@relay.la.tis.com [198.51.22.11]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA08915 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:09:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: by relay.la.tis.com; id SAA15296; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yellowstone.la.tis.com(192.5.49.124) by relay.la.tis.com via smap (3.2) id xma015294; Tue, 29 Apr 97 18:11:06 -0700 Received: (from brao@localhost) by yellowstone.la.tis.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA08139 for telusa@cs.wisc.edu; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:10:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Bapa Rao Message-Id: <199704300110.SAA08139@yellowstone.la.tis.com> Subject: Re: Meanings/Etymology In-Reply-To: <199704300048.RAA23989@m1.sprynet.com> from "panini@sprynet.com" at "Apr 29, 97 05:48:13 pm" To: telusa@cs.wisc.edu Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:10:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My guesses/speculations: > musaLLa panDaga "musaLLu"=musalaalu, referring to the fratricide of yadavas using musalaalu after the Mahabharata war. > terachi raaju I saw "trOsi raaju", never "terachi raaju". I speculate that both terms may be related to chess, in which "raaju" is uttered when placing the opponentt's king in check. The "trOsi" variant may refer to moving into a square occupied by the opponent's piece (pushing it aside or capturing it) and then placing the opponent's king in check; "terachi" may mean moving aside one of one's own pieces, revealing a check to the opponent's king. > muttaiduva/aidava tanam (I have some understanding of this term from > an exchange with Sreenivaas paruchoori but I would like to know > what the rest of you think) I think there are 5 things associated with non-widowed-married state (pasupu, kumkuma, maTTElu, gaajulu, and something else); mutta- simply means senior or older lady meeting the qualifications, though it may be used as a respectful term for even younger women. Bapa Rao > > Regards, > > paaNini > From cjampala@quark.dayton.net Tue Apr 29 21:46:17 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA13168 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:46:12 -0500 Received: from quark.dayton.net (quark.dayton.net [199.218.243.8]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA10281 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:46:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from quark.dayton.net (quark.dayton.net [199.218.243.8]) by quark.dayton.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id WAA29440 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:52:39 -0400 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:52:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "V. Chowdary Jampala" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Meanings/Etymology In-Reply-To: <199704300048.RAA23989@m1.sprynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 29 Apr 1997 panini@sprynet.com wrote: > Similarly, I wonder about the meaning/origin of the words: > > musaLLa panDaga > terachi raaju terachi raaju is a term from chess, the Telugu equivalent of 'discovered check', when the opposing king is attacked not by the piece that is being moved, but by another piece whose ability to attack the king is felicitated (i.e., the attack line is opened or discovered) by the movement of the first piece. Question: Isn't there a viSwanaatha novel with the title 'terachi raaju'? Regards -- V. Chowdary Jampala From cjampala@quark.dayton.net Tue Apr 29 21:59:53 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA13548 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:59:44 -0500 Received: from smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (smartcad4.me.wisc.edu [144.92.36.238]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10562 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:59:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from teluscit@localhost) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA23104 for telusa@cs.wisc.edu; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:57:45 -0500 Received: from quark.dayton.net (quark.dayton.net [199.218.243.8]) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA23093 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:57:41 -0500 Received: from quark.dayton.net (quark.dayton.net [199.218.243.8]) by quark.dayton.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id XAA30385 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:06:10 -0400 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:06:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "V. Chowdary Jampala" To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu Subject: Re: Meanings/Etymology In-Reply-To: <199704300048.RAA23989@m1.sprynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (*Will post to SCIT also*) On Tue, 29 Apr 1997 panini@sprynet.com wrote: > namastE! > > Sree raamakRshNa gaari post on seasonal poems translated the word > "kanduva" in one of the poems as "season." That got me thinking > as I have come across this word, especially in annamaachaarya > keertanalu, several times and its meaning seems to change with > context. According to Sabda ratnaakaramu: kanduva: 1. jaaDa, 2. sankEta sthalamu, 3. RUtuvu, 4. Ekaantamu, 5. chamatkaaramu, 6. pradESamu, 7. saamardhyamu, 8. tega Regards. -- V. Chowdary Jampala From cjampala@desire.wright.edu Tue Apr 29 22:16:35 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA14062 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:16:27 -0500 Received: from smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (smartcad4.me.wisc.edu [144.92.36.238]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA10840 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:16:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from teluscit@localhost) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id WAA23330 for telusa@cs.wisc.edu; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:14:28 -0500 Received: from desire.wright.edu (desire.wright.edu [130.108.128.200]) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA23321 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:14:25 -0500 Received: from desire.wright.edu by desire.wright.edu (PMDF V5.0-5 #12548) id <01IIAMVUY0EO972NLQ@desire.wright.edu> for telusa-scit@smartcad.me.wisc.edu; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:14:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "V. Chowdary Jampala" Subject: Re: Meanings/Etymology In-reply-to: <199704300048.RAA23989@m1.sprynet.com> To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (*Will post to SCIT also*) On Tue, 29 Apr 1997 panini@sprynet.com wrote: > Similarly, I wonder about the meaning/origin of the words: > muttaiduva/aidava tanam Again according to Sabda ratnaakaramu: aiduva: (aidu vannelu galadi) maangalayamu gala stree. (vanne yanagaa ikkaDa sumangali(sic)yokka alankaaramu. aidEvanagaa - mangaLa sootramu, pasupu, kunkumamu, gaajulu, chevvaaaku) (ayiduva yokka roopaantaramu mutta: vRUddha, vRUddhuDu Regards. -- V. Chowdary Jampala From pkrishna@ARL.MIL Tue Apr 29 22:46:25 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA14339 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:46:20 -0500 Received: from smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (smartcad4.me.wisc.edu [144.92.36.238]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA11208 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:46:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from teluscit@localhost) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id WAA23702 for telusa@cs.wisc.edu; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:44:22 -0500 Received: from hel4.arl.mil (hel4.arl.mil [128.63.37.4]) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id WAA23693 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:44:19 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 97 23:41:37 EDT From: "Ramakrishna S. Pillalamarri" To: *Will post to SCIT also* Subject: Re: Meanings/Etymology Organization: U.S. Army Human Engineering Research Directorate Message-ID: <9704292341.aa14805@HEL4.ARL.MIL> Reply-To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (*Will post to SCIT also*) Most of my friends know of my refrain - ayya vArEm cEstunnAranTE ... Actually, "cEsina pApam cepitE pOtundiTa". andukanEnEmO, catholic church-lalO confessional booths unDaTam. "kanduva" anna padAniki artham nAku teliyadu. pakkanE Sabda-ratnAkaram unnA, teesi cUDalEdu. nA daggarunna bhAgavatam edition-lOnE foot-note-lO "vAna-kanduva"=varsha Rtuvu ani unTE adi rAsAnu. The word has such a veriety of meanings, it is really surprising. Many a time one can see a coomon thread running through seemingly different meanings of a word, but I am afraid I can't see that here. Ramakrishna From pkrishna@ARL.MIL Tue Apr 29 23:04:16 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA14454 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:04:11 -0500 Received: from hel4.arl.mil (hel4.arl.mil [128.63.37.4]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA11437 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:04:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 97 0:02:15 EDT From: "Ramakrishna S. Pillalamarri" To: Telugu Literary Discussion Group Subject: Re: On "seasonal" poems Organization: U.S. Army Human Engineering Research Directorate Message-ID: <9704300002.aa18006@HEL4.ARL.MIL> It escaped me for the moment, but Nasy reminded me of a recent reference to the three different types of "agni". It occurred during last September's SatAvadhAnam by Sri mADugula nAgaphaNi Sarma. MNS has a particular fondness for the words "DAlu", and "pisALincu", which he used in several poems that day. They occur here too. The question was for a poem to be composed with reference to an incident from manu-caritra. The four words given for inclusion (usually one in each line) are: London, America, Japan, Italy Here is the poem: (courtesy Nasy) alarun jAru jigin bigin hoyala DAlanDan piSALincu yI lalitan bondina puNyamE amari kaLyANambulE galgu - nO lalanA nEnu japAnuraktuDa, kathA lAvaNyamai gEhaman dalaghu SrI tritayAgni velgeniTa lIlAlApamul dharmamE. SR says: DAlu=kAnti, Tekkemu; pisALincu=prakASincu, parimaLincu, vyApincu "inta thaLa-thaLa lADutunnAvu, neeku kaLyANam jarugutundilE, nEnEdO japa-tapAlu cEsukunE vANNi. inTlO mUDagnulu velugutU unnAyi, nannu pOnivva-kunDA iTlA sallApAlu sAgincaTam dharmamA!" (rough trans) In the course of the poem, MNS talked a little bit about the "mUDagnulu". While his incorporation of the four apparently difficult words was appealing, I particularly liked the way he used Japan in the third line. I wish we can have another SatAvadhAnam soon. This time it is bound to be even better, with the experience gained by the organizers, and those who helped them. Ramakrishna PS: an aside to Naa. Sreenivas - mails to you keep bouncing. Send me a mail. From narayans@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu Wed Apr 30 08:16:39 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA19739 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:16:34 -0500 Received: from dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu [129.25.3.11]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17815 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:16:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [144.118.12.138] (spray1.coe.drexel.edu [144.118.12.138]) by dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA03764 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704301315.JAA03764@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu> X-Sender: narayans@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: telusa@cs.wisc.edu From: narayans@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (Nasy Sankagiri) Subject: mUDagnula padyam, was Re: On "seasonal" poems > >The question was for a poem to be composed with reference to an incident >from manu-caritra. The four words given for inclusion (usually one in >each line) are: > > London, America, Japan, Italy > >Here is the poem: (courtesy Nasy) > > alarun jAru jigin bigin hoyala DAlanDan piSALincu yI > lalitan bondina puNyamE amari kaLyANambulE galgu - nO > lalanA nEnu japAnuraktuDa, kathA lAvaNyamai gEhaman > dalaghu SrI tritayAgni velgeniTa lIlAlApamul dharmamE. > >SR says: DAlu=kAnti, Tekkemu; pisALincu=prakASincu, parimaLincu, vyApincu > > "inta thaLa-thaLa lADutunnAvu, neeku kaLyANam jarugutundilE, nEnEdO > japa-tapAlu cEsukunE vANNi. inTlO mUDagnulu velugutU unnAyi, > nannu pOnivva-kunDA iTlA sallApAlu sAgincaTam dharmamA!" (rough trans) > If I remember correctly, the poem describes the conversation between varUdhini and pravara. The first two lines are spoken by varUdhini, announcing her love known & the last two are spoken by pravara, rejecting the same. camatkAram ilA uddIpincindi. dattapadulu ceppEppuDu, mundu varasagA reNDu pAdAlu ceppukunToo vacci, maLLI modaTi padyamtO migilina reNDU pAdAlu ceputoo vaccAru. I padyam vishayamlO varUdhini mATalu 'kaLyANambulE galgun' anna padAlatO mugiSAyi. pravaruni 'O' anna sambOdhanani 'galgun' tO muDivEsi ApESAru, atani tiraskaaraanni okka aksharamtO sUcistoo (English lOnE anukONDi)! taravAta pravaruDu EmannADO telusukOvaTAniki sumAru Aru gaNTalu AgAlsi vaccindi!! This was one of the poems I thoroughly enjoyed from the avadhaanam. Regards Nasy PS: BTW, pun with connecting Japan with japam is not new. I remember a joke by muLLapUDi in 'navvitE navvaNDi'. From pkrishna@ARL.MIL Wed Apr 30 09:39:12 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA19962 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:39:08 -0500 Received: from hel4.arl.mil (hel4.arl.mil [128.63.37.4]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA19169 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:39:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.63.37.38] by HEL4.ARL.MIL id aa17786; 30 Apr 97 10:19 EDT X-Sender: pkrishna@128.63.37.4 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:20:24 -0600 To: Telugu Literary Discussion Group From: "Ramakrishna S. Pillalamrri" Subject: Re: mUDagnula padyam, was Re: On "seasonal" poems Now, with the elaboration, I remember the context better, and the poem makes beter sense. Yes, I remember the "japAni-keLLAru" jOkulu. Those were there even before muLLapUDi incorporated them, I guess. Let me expand on Nasy's comments. The poem is conversation between varUdhini and pravara. The way the avadhAnam was organized, MNS handled 5-datta padis, 5-samasyas, 5-varNanas, 5-mee praSnaku nA pATa,... in each "round". For dattapadis, he completed two lines of the poem, and wen on to the next one. So, in this poem, the conversation is: varUdhini: alarun jAru jigin bigin hoyala DAlanDan piSALincu yI lalitan bondina puNyamE amari kaLyANambulE galgu, pravara: nO lalanA! nEnu japAnuraktuDa, kathA lAvaNyamai gEhaman dalaghu SrI tritayAgni velgeniTa lIlAlApamul dharmamE. akkaDiki renDu pAdAlu ayipOyAyi. Completing that second line with the single one letter word "nO" (galgun + O) was a camatkAram. And because the last two lines weren't completed for anoter six hours, the cliff hanger effect lasted that long. Not only for this poem, but for some others too, though not to this dramatic extent. There were some others gimmicks like this that day. While he was working on another dattapadi-poem (the words were: cirAku, parAku, kAki, kOku, with SreekRshNa rAyabAram as the scene) one of the aprastuta prasangam duo (Vanguri Chitten Raju and Appajosyula Satyanarayana), probably AS started to interrupt him with a question. MNS immdeiately started the dattapadi poem thus: rAkika, lEci rAku, kuru rADwara! (audience laughter) and he continued rAkika lEci rAku, kuru rADwara! dharmamu nApa rAku! mee- rAkula pATutO bahuparAkule nityamaTancu nenci cee- kAkula kAki kUtalaku gAsili mrAnpaDa bOku, nEDu nI- kO kuTilambe pADi yanukOku, vRthA samarambu bhUvarA.." With the asides, and narrations from prior avadhAnams, it was very entertaining, and the fact that we were all part of a premier event was exciting. Ramakrishna "A apurUpamaina avadhAnapu DAlu pisALameppuDO!" Pillalamarri __^__ __^__ (_____)===============================================================(_____) | / | | \ | | / | Ramakrishna S. Pillalamarri Email:pkrishna@arl.mil | \ | | / | Electronics Engineer Snail:AMSRL-HR-SF, Bldg 459 | \ | | / | US Army Research Laboratory Voice: (410) 278-5842 | \ | | / | Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD 21005 Fax : (410) 278-5500 | \ | |___| dESa bhAshalandu telugu lessa! less kAdanDee, lessa - best! |___| (_____)===============================================================(_____) From prasad@acm6.me.uiuc.edu Wed Apr 30 11:55:04 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA20321 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:54:58 -0500 Received: from smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (smartcad4.me.wisc.edu [144.92.36.238]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21443 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:54:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from teluscit@localhost) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA28711 for telusa@cs.wisc.edu; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:52:59 -0500 Received: from acm6.me.uiuc.edu (acm6.me.uiuc.edu [128.174.125.26]) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA28702 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:52:57 -0500 Received: by acm6.me.uiuc.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA31860; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:54:53 -0500 From: prasad@acm6.me.uiuc.edu (Prasad Chodavarapu) Message-Id: <9704301654.AA31860@acm6.me.uiuc.edu> Subject: samasya To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (Telugu News Group) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:54:53 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (*Will post to SCIT also*) Rtu varNana jarigindi. avadhAnam prasakti kUDA vaccindi. antE kAka, vasantam ippuDE aDugiDutOndi. kAnI, okkaTE cikku. ikkaDa kOkila gAnam vinabaDadE! inni jata kUDinappuDu, can samasya be far behind? :-) mattakOkila vRttamlO, pADavAyenu kOkilA jagamul vasantuDe kOrinan (11 va aksharam yati). regards prasad -- ************************************************************** Prasad Chodavarapu * WWW Homepage: * 128C, Lyellwood Pk.way * * Rochester NY 14606 * http://acm7.me.uiuc.edu/~prasad * ************************************************************** ph:(716)-426-7634(R) * "manasanE oka sampada prati * (716)-726-9887(O) * manishilOnU unDanI, mamatalE * *************************** prati manasulO koluvunDanI" * e-mail:prasad@kodak.com * --rAjaSrI * ************************************************************** From prasad@acm6.me.uiuc.edu Wed Apr 30 12:00:41 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA20352 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:00:37 -0500 Received: from smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (smartcad4.me.wisc.edu [144.92.36.238]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21560 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:00:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from teluscit@localhost) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA28757 for telusa@cs.wisc.edu; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:58:38 -0500 Received: from acm6.me.uiuc.edu (acm6.me.uiuc.edu [128.174.125.26]) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA28748 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:58:36 -0500 Received: by acm6.me.uiuc.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA49113; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:00:32 -0500 From: prasad@acm6.me.uiuc.edu (Prasad Chodavarapu) Message-Id: <9704301700.AA49113@acm6.me.uiuc.edu> Subject: samasya-correction To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (Telugu News Group) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:00:32 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (*Will post to SCIT also*) : Rtu varNana jarigindi. avadhAnam prasakti kUDA vaccindi. : antE kAka, vasantam ippuDE aDugiDutOndi. kAnI, okkaTE cikku. : ikkaDa kOkila gAnam vinabaDadE! inni jata kUDinappuDu, can : samasya be far behind? :-) : : mattakOkila vRttamlO, : pADavAyenu kOkilA jagamul vasantuDe kOrinan : (11 va aksharam yati). oops! i had one thing in mind and typed the other. pai samasyalO yati kudaralEdu. make it mUgavOyenu kOkilA jagamul vasantuni cErinan -- ************************************************************** Prasad Chodavarapu * WWW Homepage: * 128C, Lyellwood Pk.way * * Rochester NY 14606 * http://acm7.me.uiuc.edu/~prasad * ************************************************************** ph:(716)-426-7634(R) * "manasanE oka sampada prati * (716)-726-9887(O) * manishilOnU unDanI, mamatalE * *************************** prati manasulO koluvunDanI" * e-mail:prasad@kodak.com * --rAjaSrI * ************************************************************** From varigond@cems.umn.edu Wed Apr 30 12:07:25 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA20437 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:07:21 -0500 Received: from smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (smartcad4.me.wisc.edu [144.92.36.238]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21682 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:07:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from teluscit@localhost) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA28843 for telusa@cs.wisc.edu; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:05:22 -0500 Received: from hart.cems.umn.edu (hart.cems.umn.edu [134.84.54.2]) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA28834 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:05:20 -0500 Received: by hart.cems.umn.edu (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA123780034; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:07:14 -0500 From: Subbarao Varigonda Posted-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:07:14 -0500 Received-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:07:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199704301707.AA123780034@hart.cems.umn.edu> Subject: Re: samasya To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:07:14 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9704301654.AA31860@acm6.me.uiuc.edu> from "Prasad Chodavarapu" at Apr 30, 97 11:54:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (*Will post to SCIT also*) > mattakOkila vRttamlO, > pADavAyenu kOkilA jagamul vasantuDe kOrinan ^^ ^^^ > (11 va aksharam yati). There is no yati between 1st and 11th letters. samasya needs to be modified! (I don't know mattakOkila chandas. Is is ra-sa-na-ja-bha-ra?) -- *********************************************************************** Varigonda Subbarao Present Address ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------- varigond@cems.umn.edu 1209, 8thSt SE Box#144, 46 Amundson Hall Minneapolis, MN 55414 University of Minnesota USA Minneapolis, MN 55455 ph:(612) 617-9377 ph: (612) 625-3367 URL: http://www.cems.umn.edu/~varigond *********************************************************************** From prasad@acm6.me.uiuc.edu Wed Apr 30 13:14:40 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20776 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:14:35 -0500 Received: from smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (smartcad4.me.wisc.edu [144.92.36.238]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA22821 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:14:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from teluscit@localhost) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA29400 for telusa@cs.wisc.edu; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:12:36 -0500 Received: from acm6.me.uiuc.edu (acm6.me.uiuc.edu [128.174.125.26]) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id NAA29391 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:12:35 -0500 Received: by acm6.me.uiuc.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA17338; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:14:30 -0500 From: prasad@acm6.me.uiuc.edu (Prasad Chodavarapu) Message-Id: <9704301814.AA17338@acm6.me.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: samasya To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:14:30 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199704301707.AA123780034@hart.cems.umn.edu> from "Subbarao Varigonda" at Apr 30, 97 12:07:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (*Will post to SCIT also*) [Subbarao Varigonda wrote...] : > mattakOkila vRttamlO, : > pADavAyenu kOkilA jagamul vasantuDe kOrinan : ^^ ^^^ : > (11 va aksharam yati). : : There is no yati between 1st and 11th letters. samasya needs to be modified! : (I don't know mattakOkila chandas. Is is ra-sa-na-ja-bha-ra?) yeah, i did modify the samasya immediately after posting the wrong version. mUgavOyenu kOkilA jagamul(OR gaLamul) vasantuni cErinan the gaNa seried for mattakOkila is ra-sa-ja-ja-bha-ra regards prasad -- ************************************************************** Prasad Chodavarapu * WWW Homepage: * 128C, Lyellwood Pk.way * * Rochester NY 14606 * http://acm7.me.uiuc.edu/~prasad * ************************************************************** ph:(716)-426-7634(R) * "manasanE oka sampada prati * (716)-726-9887(O) * manishilOnU unDanI, mamatalE * *************************** prati manasulO koluvunDanI" * e-mail:prasad@kodak.com * --rAjaSrI * ************************************************************** From pkrishna@ARL.MIL Wed Apr 30 13:42:10 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20885 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:42:05 -0500 Received: from hel4.arl.mil (hel4.arl.mil [128.63.37.4]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA23361 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:42:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.63.37.38] by HEL4.ARL.MIL id aa23576; 30 Apr 97 14:31 EDT X-Sender: pkrishna@128.63.37.4 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:31:40 -0600 To: Telugu Literary Discussion Group From: "Ramakrishna S. Pillalamrri" Subject: matta kOkila chandassu In response to Subbarao Varigonda's query, matta kOkila is: ra-sa-ja-ja-bha-ra But a better way to specify (I look for parsimonious representations) is as 3(AB)+AG, where A - UI, B - UII, and G - U You can look at matta kOkila in several ways. Did you ever consider that the candra-SEkharAshTakam, which goes as candra SEkhara candra SEkhara candra SEkhara pAhimAm candra SEkhara candra SEkhara candra SEkhara rakshamAm is a matta kOkila! If you split a matta kOkila line in two, as 2(AB) + ABAG they would look like the last two lines of a "mutyAla saram". In general, "mutyAla saram" is three lines of 2(AB) with a fourth line of ABAG, where A is any one of UI, III, IU and B is any one of UU, UII, IIU, IIII (note the absence of ja-IUI) For example, sunna yidigO, sunna yadigO sunna pOyina sunna sunnE! sunnakunu mari sunna kalipina sunnayE migulun! so two lines of a mutyAla saram will become a line of a matta kOkila, with a little surgery at the end, when A is UI, and B is UII, as in dESamannanu pRema nuncumu manci yannadi pencumA vaTTi mATala kaTTi peTTumu, gaTTi mElonarincumA coming back to Prasad's line, my mod for it (for yati) would be: mUga vOyenu kOkilal jagamun vasantamu rAganE! ^^ ^^ Ramakrishna __^__ __^__ (_____)===============================================================(_____) | / | | \ | | / | Ramakrishna S. Pillalamarri Email:pkrishna@arl.mil | \ | | / | Electronics Engineer Snail:AMSRL-HR-SF, Bldg 459 | \ | | / | US Army Research Laboratory Voice: (410) 278-5842 | \ | | / | Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD 21005 Fax : (410) 278-5500 | \ | |___| dESa bhAshalandu telugu lessa! less kAdanDee, lessa - best! |___| (_____)===============================================================(_____) From STADIGAD@us.oracle.com Wed Apr 30 14:16:12 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA21044 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:16:08 -0500 Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [192.86.155.100]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA23931 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:16:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mailsun2.us.oracle.com (mailsun2.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.74]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA28409 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailsun2.us.oracle.com (SMI-8.6/37.8) id MAA01954; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:22:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199704301922.MAA01954@mailsun2.us.oracle.com> Date: 30 Apr 97 10:39:29 -0700 From: "STADIGAD.US.ORACLE.COM" To: telusa@cs.wisc.edu Subject: mattakOkila chandassu. Cc: STADIGAD@us.oracle.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.0.2.1.40) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" matta kOkila chandassu : matta kOkila matta kOkila matta kOkila matta kO The above is an example line for a matta kOkila poem. The 'gaNa' sequence is easily derived from UIUII UIUII UIUII UIU as UIU IIU IUI IUI UII UIU which is ra - sa - ja - ja - bha - ra THe yati point in the line should be at: UIUII UIUII UIUII UIU That is the 11th position. An example line is: akshayambuga kASilOpala annapUrNa bhavAnivai -Tadigadapa Syamala Rao. ------------------------ From DasigiV@sacredheart.edu Wed Apr 30 16:09:03 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA23028 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:08:39 -0500 Received: from smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (smartcad4.me.wisc.edu [144.92.36.238]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26608 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:08:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from teluscit@localhost) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA01206 for telusa@cs.wisc.edu; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:06:40 -0500 Received: from gatekeeper.sacredheart.edu ([148.166.28.1]) by smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA01197 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:06:38 -0500 Received: by gatekeeper.sacredheart.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA27999; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:08:31 -0400 Received: by mail.sacredheart.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC5589.291C1CC0@mail.sacredheart.edu>; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:08:44 -0400 Message-Id: From: "Dasigi, Venu" To: "'telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu'" Subject: mattakOkila samasya - solution? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:06:46 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: telusa-scit@smartcad4.me.wisc.edu (*Will post to SCIT also*) I am posting after a long time; the samasya was too tempting. I interpret it as a comment on the reluctant arrival of spring this year: raaga ranjita bhaava poorita ramya sundara dRSyamul aegutenchunu naeDu raepani vaeyi kannula vaechinan vaagulanniTa manchu ninDenu vaarevaa yidi chaitramaa? moogavOyenu kOyilal jagamun vasantamu raaganae! Feel free to criticize / modify! I know there is room for both! --- Venu --- Venu Dasigi Venu Dasigi, Ph.D. Associate Professor and Director of Graduate Programs in Computer Science Sacred Heart University, 5151 Park Ave., Fairfield, CT 06432-1000 E-mail: dasigiv@sacredheart.edu or dasigi@shu.sacredheart.edu Phone: (203) 371-7792 Fax: (203) 365-7694 From rveluri@smtpgate.anl.gov Wed Apr 30 17:10:59 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA24633 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:10:54 -0500 Received: from dns2.anl.gov (dns2.anl.gov [146.139.254.3]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA27996 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:10:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtpgate.anl.gov (smtpgate2.anl.gov [146.137.96.34]) by dns2.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA11652 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:10:52 -0500 Received: from ccMail by smtpgate.anl.gov (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA862445449; Wed, 30 Apr 97 17:07:59 CST Date: Wed, 30 Apr 97 17:07:59 CST From: "Rao Veluri" Message-Id: <9703308624.AA862445449@smtpgate.anl.gov> To: telusa@cs.wisc.edu Subject: Re: mattakOkila chandassu. Sree Syamala Rao gAru on 4/30/97 writes: "--- matta kOkila chandassu : matta kOkila matta kOkila matta kOkila matta kO The above is an example line for a matta kOkila poem. The 'gaNa' sequence is easily derived from UIUII UIUII UIUII UIU as UIU IIU IUI IUI UII UIU which is ra - sa - ja - ja - bha - ra The yati point in the line should be at: UIUII UIUII UIUII UIU That is the 11th position. ---" I must confess, Oh! boy o' boy! I love this!! My favorite sport! Back to chandassu, gaNavibhajana and samasyaa pooraNam! For instance, if you are like me, stammer at the outset, (is this what they call kRtyaadyavastha!!)and say you have uttered likewise: mamama kOkila matta kOkila matta kOkila matta kO or matata kOkila matta kOkila matta kOkila matta kO instead of matta kOkila matta kOkila matta kOkila matta kO then don't worry! You now have dhRvakOkila vRttam (na-bha-ra-sa-ja-ja-ga), which is also known as taralam. Hey! Even the yati fits! It is the 12th letter! All your stammer did is to change the first guruvu to two laghuvulu! But if you say tatata kOkila matta kOkila matta kOkila matta kO then, you are way off! The yati is gone!! Unless you say tatata kOkila matta kOkila tatta kOkila matta kO I repeat. I love this game. Let's play. Ain't it fun? Most Sincerely (I mean it), Venkateswara Rao "the fun loving and never offending" Veluri From STADIGAD@us.oracle.com Wed Apr 30 18:46:20 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA25260 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:46:15 -0500 Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [192.86.155.100]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA29435 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:46:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mailsun2.us.oracle.com (mailsun2.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.74]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA16319 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailsun2.us.oracle.com (SMI-8.6/37.8) id QAA27175; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:52:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199704302352.QAA27175@mailsun2.us.oracle.com> Date: 30 Apr 97 16:42:28 -0700 From: "STADIGAD.US.ORACLE.COM" To: telusa@cs.wisc.edu Subject: Re. matta kOkila chandassu. Cc: STADIGAD@us.oracle.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.0.2.1.40) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I read the entertaining letter by Sri Veluri on matta kOkila chandassu. Chandassu can be a fun to play, I agree. Also I would like to add that like any other tool, chandassu can be used, misused or absued. Because tools can not defend themselves, they are too often blamed for bad results. With a length of N positions, we have theoratically 2 to-the-power-of N distinct combinations, each a vRitta chandas in its own right. But from all such combinations possible in Vritta series' of length 1 trhu 26, we have but a handful of metres popular. This is perhaps due to the beauties of their respective 'naDaka' or 'flow'. May be there are still a lot of combinations waiting for some body to explore and popularize. It would be a real fun to hunt for such new vRitta combinations. While some Vrittas have beuatiful flow embedded, such flow usually is not that rigid. The poet tunes the flow by employing word breaks to suit his requirements. But some poems have too inflexible flow. I believe matta kOkila is one such vRittam. It is relly hard to alter the flow. If you try, it is not pleasing. At least to my knowledge. There are other Vrittas with such fixed flows. Thta could be one reason why chands like the matta kOkila was used in traditional poetry some waht sparingly. I wonder whether it would be a great idea for research, - if not already attempted-, to understand how kavitrayam have selected their metres. What general general guidelines they followed while selecting a perticular metre for a perticular context. We can not dismiss that the selection of metres is entirely random. This could be a good topic for discussion and it would be a lot educating and entertaining. I honestly believe that overuse and abuse have spelled doom for the traditional chandObaddha kavitvam. Poets like all artists, are not slaves to the tools they employ. Though important, tools won't produce artists. It is always artists, who comes up with useful tools and masters them. At times, the accured knwledge about the make & behaviour of a tool becomes so immense and burdensome for mediocre and uninitiated. I think we must not derive fun from mediocracy. It could be a serious threat to the real art. Long time back, I was on a tourist bus which took us to an art gallory. A few of us went inside. When we came back, we found that a lot of frinds have purchased *art* works in the local stores. Some even have some oil paintings. But all were cheap. There was no art there. Only oil and painting. In all art forms, only few master the art, but many stop before any acheivement. Some of them, find ways to sell their products. General public sees what is in the market. Why I am writing all this? May be it is not too relavent to the current topic. But I must hasten to add that I would like to see serious poetry revived. Some people may take real interest in so-called classical poetry and do constructive work. I would be fun to do some constructive work and contribute to the health of the ailing art of traditional poetry. It could be a real game. Tough against opponents who would love to drive nails to the coffin of this old art form. It would be real fun too. _Syamala Rao. ------------- From ramana@horizoncomp.com Wed Apr 30 21:28:22 1997 Received: from lucy.cs.wisc.edu (lucy.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.11]) by sea.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA25931 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:28:18 -0500 Received: from lekha.easyway.net (vanguard-sl11.easyway.net [205.232.178.204]) by lucy.cs.wisc.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA01365 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:28:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from ramana@localhost) by lekha.easyway.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA24136; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:28:35 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:28:35 -0400 Message-Id: <199705010128.VAA24136@lekha.easyway.net> From: Ramana Juvvadi To: telusa@cs.wisc.edu Subject: Re. matta kOkila chandassu. In-Reply-To: <199704302352.QAA27175@mailsun2.us.oracle.com> References: <199704302352.QAA27175@mailsun2.us.oracle.com> STADIGAD.US.ORACLE.COM writes: > With a length of N positions, we have theoratically 2 to-the-power-of N > distinct combinations, each a vRitta chandas in its own right. But from > all such combinations possible in Vritta series' of length 1 trhu 26, > we have but a handful of metres popular. This is perhaps due to the Before I say anything, let me clarify that I appreciate beauty in words whether they are in chandO or non-chandO form. But I never understood one thing. Perhaps you could clarify. If chandassu is really a tool, one of the following must be true. (1) By following chandassu you would most probably automatically generate a beuatiful poem. (2) If you don't follow chandassu, it is very unlikely that you won't generate a beautiful poem. I have a hard time believing that either of the statements is true. To me it looks that skillful poets are able to generate beauty in spite of chandassu rather than because of chandassu. I have a broader philosophic objection to the entire system of chandassu or a raga in Indian music. It looks like an attempt to capture the beauty of words or music in a few simple patterns. I think that human mind is complex enough that its aesthetic sense cannot be captured by a few simple rules. Ramana